Forum Activity for @Clay

Calum -

As a point of comparison:

2xMaestrias (45kg) with pneumatic depositors (maximum size of inclusion of about 3mm) will cost you under €50,000 total. 2x200kg melters cost under €20,000. Mold loaders add another €15,000 all in.

FBM is introducing a new one-shot in the Fall but I don't have pricing on it (won't until after they return from holidays) and I don't know what the max inclusion size is on the one-shot but I will ask.

A 50 mold vertical cooling tunnel is under €30k and the 100 mold tunnel is under €40k.

If you wanted to buy all this equipment, I quoted catalog list prices above - I am confident FBM could take care of you.

The customer doing so many bars a day has some products where the inclusions are mixed in (such as flaked coconut) and others where the inclusions are vibrated in.

Clay,

Thanks for this response!

To answer your questions:

- This line is 128k EUR

- Nuts are included through the OSD5 stage, I assume (I have asked for clarification)

- I have asked about max inclusion size.

I do like the quality of the FBM machines and if we could find a solution with FBM that is certainly what I would do.

The example of the company that makes 10k bars a day is interesting. At what stage do they add nuts and other inclusions?

Thanks

Calum

I'm needing 32 8 x 8 acrylic/plexiglass candy trays for a 6' display case.  Does anyone know where I can order some or does anyone have extra they are not using and would sell?

Calum -

When you say that the Pomati line you link to in the PDF is extremely expensive - what do you mean? And, when are are adding nut inclusions, what is the maximum size of the inclusion that the Pomati line can handle?

Personally, I would not invest everything in a single line. Single point of failure and the overhead involved in changeover is going to be significant. By having parallel lines - two or more - you reduce these risks and costs. If you are producing different kinds of work I would look to create solutions tailored to the work being done rather than one line that needs to be reconfigured for each different type of product.

I have one customer here in the US who is doing 10,000 bars per day each using FBM Maestrias, each backed by a 200kg melter. They build a custom cooling solution (room). All of the bars have some sort of addition (powders, inclusions) in them. 

Assuming 200 working days/year, 400,000 bars is about 2,000 bars per day. At five molds/minute and three cavities/mold, that's 900 bars/hour. If each bar is 50gr you need 45kg/hr of tempered chocolate. The T20 which is quoted in the line has a max throughput of 24kg/hr so right away I see a problem - you need a larger tempering machine.

The current Maestria has a 45kg working bowl and can temper up to 135kg/hr. FBM is introducing a new Maestria in the Fall with a 60kg working bowl and three-zone tempering. The Unica will be upgraded to a larger working bowl as well, at least 35kg if not 40kg, giving it a throughput of 70-80kg/hr. FBM offers a pneumatic depositing option for the Maestria and the Unica (and both offer three-zone tempering) or consider a one-shot machine that they plan to introduce in the Fall as well.

Of the companies in Italy offering this type of equipment, Pomati is the youngest. I can't speak to the large machines because I have not opened the backs and looked inside, but the smaller machines tend to have underpowered motors which can affect longevity when they're put into high-duty-cycle operation.

:: Clay

If the thickening is indeed due to overseeding (over crystallization, or over temper), simply take a hot air gun (hair dryer), and blow hot air into the mass while it's agitating to 'de-seed' it a bit until the rhehology is sufficient.    Note if you 'de-seed' it too much, you'll need to begin tempering again, and if the thickening isn't due to over temper, this method won't fix anything.

Hi all,

We are looking at a depositor for mainly our chocolate bars. I got talking to a reseller of Pomati in the UK and he has recommended the Pomati OSD 5 Depositors.

This can obviously do a lot more than just bars, which is great as this would be useful for doing our moulded chocolates too.

http://www.pomati.it/en-US/product/10/one-shot-depositor/one-shot-depositor-osd-5

At the moment we are doing 300 - 400k bars a year (30 tonnes), and sales are increasing quickly. At the moment our set up is wholly inadequate:

- 2 x Wheel 30Kg wheel temperers (just used to melt the couverture)

- 1 x FBM Prima (7kg working bowl)

- 1 x Chocolate fridge for cooling

- Moulded chocolate - All done by hand

All our oils, spices and nuts are then mixed, by hand, in a bowl and then poured, by hand, into moulds. One person can usually do between 600 - 800 days doing it this way.

Our main part of our business is bars but we are looking to develop the moulded praline side of the business so the one shot is interesting.

We are now in a position where we can spend some money of equipment better suited to our production, but its extremely confusing as to what would be best for us moving forward.

We have looked at a whole line for the one-shot, which is extremely expensive but I am looking in invest in a line that will future proof our production for a few years to come.

They recommended:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/an3psbwic6wxez5/OSD5%2BTank%2BT20%2BVERT175.pdf?dl=0

- Does anyone have any opinions on this?

- Is this the best way to go? How else would you do this volume if not?

- Is there a more economical way to achieve this?

- What are your thoughts on Pomati?

Many thanks!

C

I had two failures yesterday:

1. white chocolate that I finished grinding and add tempered solid cocoa butter and the chocolate cool to around 34C, then it keeps cooling but it became very very thick and in ~30C it was almost solid so I add untempered liquid cacao butter that should help to equalized the amount of V crystals, I add around 5-6% and it dosen't helped, the chocolate was thick and the temperature was just below 31C.

2. Two dark chocolate mixing in order to achieve different cacao percent, I used the seeding method, when the chocolate cools to 32C there were still lumps of solid inside, so I used stick blender - it eliminate the lumps, the temperature was more or less the same but it was very thick, after moulding grey sticks were forms (typical phenomena to overcrystallized chocolate).

It's important to mention that I used those formulas before and the viscosity was perfect.

I suspect that in both cases large amount of seeding and strong agitation (by hand or by the grinder) cause to over-crystallized chocolate that was impossible to work with and the liquid-solid transition was around the working temperature.

What was the temp of the chocolate?

Hello,
Today I had a problem that I couldn't understand, the recipe was the same as usual and the viscosity should be OK.
After finish grinding, I added the cacao butter the reduce the temperature, and I saw that the chocolate (white one) becoming very very thick and it was impossible to mould, so I add untempred cocao butter and it dosn't help at all, although I add around 5% and its a lot. The transition temperature to solid was high because it was thick.
One option is that the chocolate absorb water from the air, despite that it was in liquid state less time than usual (sometimes I leave him outside for 12 hours to cool down), second option in overcrystalization.
The phenomena of overcrystalization makes the chocolate very thick? why the problem dosen't solved when I add untempred cocao butter?
It's important to mention that the weather is very hot and humid.

The final result chocolate that is almost solid when moulding, bad apperance, no contraction but solid like temper chocolate.

Can someone help me what is the problem?

Thank you!

IS it still for sale?  I am in San Francisco CA

Do you have photos?  Why are you selling

Shawn

Both tanks are in excellent mechanical/electrical condition and temper perfectly. Meticulously cleaned and maintained will in use. Units are no longer needed and currently in storage, palletized for shipment. Located an hour north of Boston, MA.

Tank on the Left:

• 125lb/55kg Capacity with PLC Touch Screen Controls
• Like new condition.
• $7450 or BO plus freight.

[SOLD] Tank on the Right: [SOLD]

• 125lb/55kg Capacity with Fully Automated Analog Controls
• Excellent condition.
• Asking $5900 or BO plus freight.

Upgraded equipment and they are no longer needed

Can assist with freight arrangements. 

Location: Hour from Boston

 2tanks.jpg - 610KB

I am a Chocolatier in MD USA visiting India on September 4 - 12 and like to connect with Chocolatiers and cacao growers.

I am also looking for air dried Mango Strips and elastic Ribbons for decorative  closure of Chocolate boxes

thank you.

Our chocolate company has recently closed and we have 200+ assorted molds to sell.

Please see the picture for the full inventory. We are asking $1100 for the lot, which works out to about $5/mold - most of these are $20+ each when purchased new.

We prefer one buyer take the entire lot, but please also email us if interested in smaller portions at DFDelicacies@Gmail.com. Shipping is included in the bulk price, and will depend on how many you want if asking about smaller lots.

Pictures are available at ChocolateWorld.com or Tomric.com. Use the Item# in the search field.

 Untitled.jpg - 116KB

Our chocolate company recently closed. Due to this, we have 2 AC/MC Tabletop tempering machines for sale.

UPDATE: 1 SET HAS BEEN SOLD. THERE IS 1 REMAINING AC/MC WITH 3 BOWLS.

Both are about 3 years old. Also included are 6 of the metal bowls and 6 of the plastic agitator "walls" which double as thermometer holders. The extra bowls make it easier and faster to switch between flavors. The walls and bowls are easy to clean with soap and water.

Machine uses light bulbs for heat and is fully capable of heating to a temperature, allowing the chocolate to cool to another temp and then reheating to a 3rd temperature. At the end of this cycle the chocolate is tempered and ready to be worked.

While each bowl has a 6 pound capacity, we rarely used them with more than 4 pounds in a batch.

These machines are low maintenance and have been the work horse of our business. They still have many years of life in them. New machines sell for $800+ and each bowl/agitator combo for $125.00

Willing to sell to 1 buyer or as 2 lots of 1 machine with 3 bowls & walls each. ONLY 1 SET REMAINS.

Our price is $550 for the lot or $300 each individually. Shipping included in either price.

DFDelicacies@gmail.com if interested. Please indicate whether you want 1 or 2 machines in the email.

 ACMC 1.JPG.jpg - 24KB

There is no simple answer because I don't know what kind of molds you are using (thermoform has different heat transfer characteristics than polycarbonate), the dimensions of the mold cavity (the thicker the bar the longer it takes), the temperature of the chocolate (it will take longer if the temper point is 32C compared with 30C), and the amount of airflow in the cabinet (how efficiently are you removing the latent heat of crystallization - which can be affected by what the molds are resting on). 

I don't know about the temperature the bar has to reach (outside? how do you measure the internal temperature?) but there are some important clues: what does the surface look like and what is the snap? A soft snap is an important clue that the bar is not yet fully crystallized.

All that said, in a 55F cabinet with chocolate at a 30-32C temper point (86-90F) in a polycarbonate mold with good airflow top and bottom - you are looking at 12-15 minutes minimum.

F/S Airmaster Kopykake compressor and airbrush never out of the box $100 obo USD,  plus shipping Costs $250 USD from site.

I am in Canada

Fully Automatic tempering machine Choco-Lution Bakon USA.

Touch Screen, 100 programs, Heated vibrating tables.

Pristine and just fully serviced by Bakon USA 2 month ago.

2 Years old. Works great and tempering 45lb Chocolate in 20mn.

Made in USA, ETL/NSF Certified.

Machines are in Las Vegas and can be shipped.

Tempering Machine New $19,500

I'm selling at $12,500

I have 2 units

 Choco-Lutionclipped copy_1_be4373.png - 548KB

Ours is a Martellato (specs from BakeDeco: http://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=8790&categoryid=0)

Asking $700 plus shipping see our separate post about used guitar for sale (this is NOT coming from bakedeco at all).

Thanks Sebastian for your suggestions. We conched again chocolate for 48 hours and then we put vanilla. We tasted the chocolate  a few times during the first 10 minutes and then we stopped the conching process. The vanilla taste started to dissapear after 10 minutes.

Our previous bad experienced with the chocolate flavour might have been caused by a bad batch of cocoa beans, definitely not because of the vanilla.

I live in India and can offer you small grinders. you can email me at : amutchall@gmail.com

Avninder Mutchall

For Sale: One Hilliard Little Dipper. The machine is in excellent, used condition. It was completely rebuilt one year ago. It is used regularly in our shop. I now do all tempering in my Selmi so the Little Dipper needs a new home. The machine weighs about 50 lbs. It is located in Cincinnati, OH 45202. I will assist in preparing for shipping and can help coordinate with UPS/FedEx as desired.

The asking price is $795 plus applicable shipping.

 IMG_2294a.jpg - 1013KB

Final price: $5,000 plus shipping.

For sale: One used Hilliard Hand Coater with Enrober. This is the 80 lb per day model. The machine was completed torn down and rebuilt two years ago. It includes the overnight cover, extra blades for the bowl, spare parts, and the original manual and paperwork. It has only been used a handful of times since the rebuild. Everything is in good working order. The machine is located in Cincinnati, Ohio. I would be glad to help coordinate shipping if required. The machine can be palletized for ready shipment. Freightquote or Total Quality Logistics are good options. The machine weighs 100 lbs and will ship from 45202. 

Asking price is $5500 OBO, FOB Cincinnati.

Video of the machine running is at:Hilliard Hand Coater in Operation - Chocolate Tempering Machine

 IMG_2284a.jpg - 1.3MB

Reduced Price....

I posted this a while back but have been using it so I have not been eager to sell it.  Now we have changed our process and the Belt Coater is sitting and once again we are ready to sell.

This 38 Inch Belt Coater is in very good (practically new) condition. This is a three phase unit with an fm50 phase converter so you can run this unit with full variable speed control from any single phase outlet. This all in one unit has lights, fans and a 12 jet water jacketed drip system set up with a 2 inch sanitary tri clover fitting.

The entire unit is mounted on a base frame with casters so that it can be moved and cleaned easily. This belt coater also comes with a ribbed polishing belt. The polishing belt (not pictured) can be changed in about a half hour.

This Belt Coater can handle batch sizes as large as 120 pounds for most centers and up to 150 pounds for a heavy center such as a dried fruit.  Pictures can be seen at http://decorchocolates.com/beltcoater.aspx

$7,500 

Jeremy

425-344-7737

 BeltCoater1.JPG.jpg - 50KB

Thanks for the advice Clay, I'll give them a call and see if they can point me in the right direction 

I personally don't know anyone who's selling used equipment for this scale of production.

You may find someone selling used in the UK here in the classifieds on TheChocolateLife. CocoaTowns and their ilk are likely, I have no idea if there is any used Kudvic machinery, but they are comparatively expensive, per kilo of batch capacity, new. You could contact CPS to see if they know of any used equipment.

Malcolm at Vantage House may also know of used items.

I do know them, but we are looking to purchase used equipment rather than new. We are wanting to scale up our production to 300 bars per week and have been looking at cocoa town eg65 and a russian provider called kudvic. But we are interested in any brands that will fulfil that sort of production level. 

Do you know Vantage House ? They handle pretty much everything you need if you are interested in smaller-scale production. How much chocolate do you want to make in a given day/week/month?

Hello.

Is this still for sale?

Thanks Clay!

Im looking to add to my chocolate making equipment and basically improve my set up. Based in the UK and interested in grinders, breakers and winnowers. Get in touch if you have anything you think might be of interest. Cheers

@helion:

Thanks for the kind words ... but it is the community that does most of the important work here by being open and sharing.

50F is too cold. 55F is better.

Do you have a digital hygrometer in your work space? If not, get one. Ideally it will log the humidity over the course of the day and you can download that into a computer and keep track. If not it should measure the current humidity and the peak humidity over the past 24 hours.

A good starting working humidity is ~55%. The closer you can keep the entire work space at that level or below the easier your job will be. Humidity in the air will always condense on a colder surface if the humidity is above the dew point and the temperature of the surface is below the dew point.

Your best approach is to work to keep the ambient environment humidity (temp is ideally ~68-72F) as close to 55% as you can. You can do this with a dehumidifier - try and get one that exhausts the humidity into the warm exhaust air and then pipe the exhaust to the exterior. This will remove the humidity from the space and you will not have to plumb the humidifier to a drain or constantly dump buckets.

Just having a cabinet that lowers the humidity will not address your condensation problem. You can increase the temperature of the cabinet (up to 60F or so) but that will increase the amount of time required to cool. Increasing the airflow may help with that, to some extent, but you do have to remove the heat from the cabinet.

Thanks Clay.

Model LM3, 120v/60Hz. Only used twice and wasn't right for our job. In like new condition, with one container/lid.

Asking $290

Shipping included to continental U.S.

Contact info@verucachocolates.com for more information

 krea_swiss_(krebs)_lm3_hotchoc_heated_chocolate_sp_32001.jpg - 52KB

Hilliard 10" Compact Coater enrober with 240 lb per day tempering melter and 6 ft. cooling tunnel - $20,000. 

Call Maritza Pichon at 678-427-7736

 Enrober.jpg - 493KB

Kim:

I have uploaded the current catalog page for the Prima that lists the prices and accessories. Click on this link to go to the file download page and then click on the PDF icon to download the file.

There is a Prima going to IBIE in October and it's 20% off, plus you pay only shipping from Las Vegas. I am confirming the electrical configuration (might be 3-phase). Another ChocolateLife member has already expressed interest in it, but we can extend the show discount to you, even if we can't offer shipping from Las Vegas.

:: Clay

Will do!

Sarah Ann -

I will get you pricing info to your email within the next 48 hours.

Christopher is right in saying that it can be made quite easily. A Robot Coupe should easily be handle it depending on the consistency you're looking for. Smaller blenders (even Vita Mixes) are underpowered in my experience.

You can also purchase praliné paste. Callebaut is one option, as are Felchlin, Valrhona, and others. I would look to AgriMontana as well (they, along with Domori, are owned Illy) but they make the nut ingredients for Domori. Very good. But - take a look at the ingredients list, especially on cheaper products as they may not be clean label.

Calum -

Vantage House is a UK distributor for Everlasting, which is located in Italy. I am representing Everlasting in the US through another distributor.

The largest unit accepts 20, full-size sheet (US) pans. Temperature control as well as humidity control. These are also fast recovery time units, which means they return to the set temperature and humidity points very quickly. There is also two-door unit which reduces air transfer when opening and closing doors.

These units are designed to crystallize and hold chocolate and do a good job at it. I would use perfed sheet pans. Let me know and I can get some pricing for you.

To address the point @helion brings up: humidity is more of an issue in some locations than others. I don't know where you are located, but in general, being able to control the humidity in the environment is a very good idea. Controlling humidity within the fridge (not just in the room) provides extra control that is valuable, it's not a replacement for humidity control in the working space.

A PID temperature controller is one way to take a fridge that does not operate in the 55F range and get it to operate there. It does this by turning the unit on and off. Robust compressors are an absolute necessity when cycling like this.

Sounds good Clay,

I am planning to come to LV. Not sure yet if I will be driving or flying so shipping could be an option. I am located in St Petersburg, FL.

Please forward me the prices at your convenience.  bcurly@msn.com

Thank You,

Curly